Episode 2 (Season 2): Andrea Bardyn and Stef Heylen on Duo For A Job

We just listened to three segments: Kathleen, Olga, and Tigran sharing the challenges they face transitioning from far-off lands to here, grappling with language barriers and the maze to employment. Language stands out as a formidable barrier. They also touched upon the issue of foreign qualifications and resumes that aren't always recognized or valued here. Stef, do these issues resonate with your experience as a mentor?

Absolutely, yes. I'm mentoring a Palestinian doctor. Being a medical professional by education myself, I really appreciate Duo For A Job's effort to pair mentors and mentees thoughtfully. One of the hurdles we're currently facing is getting his medical qualifications recognized in Belgium. It's a complex process, and by early June, we'll know if his credentials will be acknowledged at a master's level, which is crucial for his future. He's shown incredible determination by redoing his entire curriculum in Poland, only to be let down by a language barrier during an oral exam. But here's someone who speaks Arabic, English, has learned Polish, and is now learning Dutch. To me, these are signs of remarkable resilience, problem-solving skills, adaptability, and a strong desire to succeed. I believe we, as employers in Flanders, make a fundamental mistake in how we draft job postings. We tend to quantify experience too much, which can lead to automatic exclusion of potential candidates by screening agencies if they don't meet those exact specifications. While certain technical skills are essential for every job, I advocate for a focus on transferable skills like problem-solving, adaptability, and resilience. This approach can uncover a wealth of experience among candidates that, with the right language support and on-the-job training, can truly make a difference.

Indeed! And that's how you bring diversity into the workplace. This issue has been a recurrent theme in many discussions here. The entire recruitment process, from job advertisements to the initial selection of candidates, is flawed in many ways.

May I add something?

Having a diverse pool of candidates doesn't guarantee their hire. To address this, diversity must become a management objective, with tangible accountability. The workforce should mirror the society we live in, which is far from the current reality. This won't change spontaneously; it requires deliberate corporate goals and accountability for managers. Ensuring workforce diversity is not automatic. During my time, I found the unconscious bias test by Banaji eye-opening, revealing how we're innately inclined to choose candidates similar to ourselves. Awareness is the first step, recognizing these biases. Another strategy is to ensure diversity within the candidate pool from the outset and to have an inclusive interview panel. These steps can significantly advance a company's diversity agenda.

Yes. That last quote really drives it home, creating this false narrative that all positions for the highly educated are already filled. Nothing could be further from the truth, yet we let so much talent slip through our fingers.

And here, I believe, lies the strength of the Duo concept. What's expected of a mentor? To leverage your network to pry open doors that were initially closed to these individuals. To help your mentee take at least that first step. To guide them in understanding the context, to make real connections with someone in a company who can make a difference for them. This gives your mentee a fairer chance to showcase their transferable skills. It's a powerful concept, something entities like VDAB can't do. They have their job listings, but they don't take these steps alongside job seekers.

We view the mentor's role as a guide. Research shows many people with a migration background face barriers, many of which relate to social capital: your diploma, your network, your industry-specific knowledge that may (or may not) apply in a new country. This is where a mentor begins to make a difference. They help identify talents and capacities. How do we match these with the industry? How do we penetrate that industry? What language does it speak? Not just literally, but also in terms of conventions, the unwritten rules... This way, a mentor can open doors, always complementing what VDAB does. VDAB plays a crucial role, but the one-on-one personal guidance, the trust between mentor and mentee, is unique. And it's necessary for truly boosting confidence and tailoring the approach to individual talents. I'm pleased to hear the snippets - Needa was someone I guided. When I introduced her to her mentor for the first time... I introduced them, and within a minute, they were throwing around terms from biophysics - I was completely lost - I knew I was no longer needed. I saw the sparkle in her eyes: she was finally speaking with someone who understood her research and could immediately link it to potential applications here. That was crucial for her to eventually find a fit between her immense talent and the local job market. Their journey was challenging, but six months later, at the end of their trajectory, she had landed a job.

Beautiful! It reminds me of what many companies do today – it just makes sense – and we do too: assigning a mentor to newcomers. So the new colleague can find their way around the company more easily, having a bit of a pillar for understanding how things work, where to find what. We take such measures for granted, and yet, we expect people coming from the other side of the world to figure things out on their own, to navigate their way here without help? That's just not feasible.

The way you put it, as a mentor, you really look at the individual and what you can offer in terms of expertise, experience, and network. I can imagine there might come a point where you'd want to communicate the insights you've gained from your mentoring, to address issues on a broader or even policy level. To open doors not just for your mentee but because you see systemic issues in multiple mentorships. Is that the case? Or is that not yet something you're considering?

We've touched on this before. Beyond setting up duo trajectories, Duo For A Job also focuses on identifying various barriers, from credential recognition to others. Andrea, you might be better suited to explain this.

There are personal barriers like self-confidence and networking, and then there are structural barriers posed by the labor market. We can't afford to focus on just one of these areas. A mentor providing individual guidance on personal barriers is crucial, and they can also address some structural barriers - like accessibility to services or mobility issues, for example. Mentors can help navigate and devise strategies to deal with structural barriers. However, it's clear that to truly succeed, these structural barriers also need to be addressed. For everyone who comes to us, we identify the barriers they're facing. We then find a mentor match to address personal barriers. Equally important, we use insights from these mentorships to influence policy by engaging with policymakers and labor market stakeholders. We also host discussions with our mentees and mentors to bring these experiences to the forefront, as it's vital to address both individual and structural levels.

How often do you meet with your mentee?

It varies, but on average, it's once a week. I often meet my current mentee at Central Station – it's convenient for him as he lives nearby, and for me, it's easy to get there by train. Recently, we've even played badminton – he's volunteering at a sports hall in Antwerp. I lost, unfortunately. But that's because the court wasn't regulation size: it was too short... I couldn't use my smashes (general laughter at the table).

It sounds like we have a competitive spirit at the table...

Let's listen to the third snippet, from Olga.

[FRAGMENT 3: Olga shares the insights she's gained from her mentor, including self-confidence, trust that things will work out, optimism, and friendship.]

What we hear confirms the impact of your work – that you're truly helping these individuals. And I assume this story isn't unique.

No, indeed, it's quite a typical story. It's how we recommend starting: getting to know each other, building trust, then analyzing strengths, weaknesses, action points, and preparing for job interviews and CVs. That's a typical trajectory. Yet, every journey is unique. At the end, we always ask what the participants gained, and in 95% of cases, they mention increased self-confidence, along with improvements in language skills and networking.

Do things ever go wrong?

It depends on what you consider 'wrong'. We closely track our duos' outcomes up to eighteen months post-participation. Seven out of ten participants find employment, training, or an internship within a year. And we only count 'employment' if it involves a contract of three months or longer. It doesn't always work out, and that's okay. Our mentors are trained to understand that the goal isn't necessarily to secure a specific job at all costs but rather to sharpen skills, boost confidence, and empower them to continue their job search independently.

Empowering people, enabling them to harness their strengths.

Another great aspect is that the initial contact is entirely non-binding for both parties. Duo tries to set up a match; you meet and talk without any pressure, and then each can decide whether to proceed. It's never forced.

Once the duo is set, the entire organization provides support. There's always someone available to help find solutions or support in terms of training, psychosocial support, etc. We quickly connect with partner organizations that can provide the right kind of assistance.

We have experience with similar initiatives here – perhaps not as focused as how you organize it. For instance, we've been running Armen TeKort Kempen for years, forming duos for people in poverty. Recently, we had a pilot project on keeping longer-term employees engaged and involved: Keeping Employees On Board, which also incorporates a form of duo methodology within the company itself. In both cases, we strive for as much equality as possible between duo members. This is crucial but not always easy. For example, the terms 'opportunity-giving' and 'opportunity-seeking' buddies in Armen TeKort already imply a hierarchy. However, as emphasized in the training, equality is the starting point – it's somewhat like an 'arranged friendship'. And with Armen TeKort, there's no requirement to achieve specific objectives within six months. How do you view the principle of equality?

It's fundamental. Without equality, success is impossible. This is stressed in the training and every step taken by the mentor and mentee, reinforcing this principle. It's crucial for us – and that's why mentors participate in intervision sessions, not mentees – mentors learn too!

Speaking of the gentleman who learned Polish and then Dutch... Polish is already a complex language, adding Dutch to that...

Language is indeed a fundamental requirement for communication, but it would greatly benefit many of our participants if more employers were flexible about it. There are excellent programs for learning language in the workplace, providing language coaching on the job. Focus on competencies, basic attitude, motivation: these are much harder to teach than language.

I'll give an example. My current mentee, a trained doctor, is now volunteering at a general practitioner's office for Medicine for the People in Deurne. It's a fantastic way for him to familiarize himself with Belgian healthcare, improve his Dutch, and learn medical terminology. And it's beneficial for them too: his knowledge of Arabic and Polish (which apparently is quite similar to Ukrainian) adds value.

From day one, he's been incredibly valuable there, able to communicate better with certain patients than the doctors themselves...

It's a call for employers to be more flexible with often stringent language requirements and to consider how to facilitate language learning on the job. I strongly believe in this. I think the movement towards inclusive business practices has many positive aspects. I'm not saying there aren't challenges – adjustments are needed, and it's not just one-sided.

But as mentioned earlier, the satisfaction mentors gain from engaging with other cultures, becoming more familiar with them, is what happens in the workplace. Working with newcomers teaches us to respect differences, and this will be a significant lever for societal progress. Employers can play a crucial role in this.

I completely agree.

I feel we're nearing the end of our conversation. I'll glance at Artemis, who often has a final question.

I was reminded of a previous discussion where it was noted that the aspect of 'activation' increasingly falls on employers' shoulders, who aren't always equipped for this. Does Duo For A Job help bridge this gap?

Yes, our mentors are informed during their training about various tools available, such as language training in the workplace, job coaching, etc. There's a lot out there, but it's not always easy for employers to see the forest for the trees. Our mentors often include references to such tools in the CV or cover letter. For example, they might mention the possibility of an IBO (Individual Vocational Training) trajectory with language support, or they might reach out to employers in their network highlighting a top candidate for a vacancy where language might be an issue, but all other requirements are met, and then suggest considering hiring this candidate with the support of available resources x, y, or z. Given that our mentors understand both the employer's perspective in the Flemish context and the mentee's side, they indeed can bridge that gap.

Or, taking it a step further: a warm invitation to employers to become mentors themselves. That way, you gain firsthand knowledge of the support available.

Absolutely, I can only endorse that. And you'll find it brings significant traction to your company.

Employers everywhere: unite and become mentors at Duo For A Job.

Thank you, Andrea and Stef, for this incredibly insightful conversation.

Thank you.